Msd's

[Shon Webb]

The last few racing threads have been talk about ignition boxes. What's the real purpose of a MSD or other brands or other ignition boxes? Maybe if people knew the purpose of them then maybe it would be easier to understand. PLEASE DON'T TAKE THIS THE WRONG WAY BY ME ASKING OR THE THREAD STARTERS BEFORE THIS POST......I'M NOT SAYING THAT YOU DON'T KNOW!!!!!. I just thought it would be good to be feedback to others. Thanks.

[dbs]

Well to put it as the box instructions say,

the MSD specifically helps the stock ignition. stock coils are an inductive device that dumps the voltage and then has to rebuild the voltage then drop it again, and its a one time shot. As you spin the car faster, you start loosing voltage due to the coil having less time to recharge.

The MSD box is programmed to suplement the coil by providing an additional capacitance which will charge the coil faster providing a constant voltage through an extended RPM.

the box also provides a multi-spark under 3000 rpms (20degrees of crank rotation). aflter which it just maintains the more constant and powerfull spark due to the reasons above.

the box's third feature is the rev limiter.

also with add ons, the box can adjust timing.

BUT the questions that I have been wrestling with include the following. is an ignitions system and combustion chamber so poorly designed that one spark actually leaves that much unburnt mixture that additional sparks light off the left over combustables??? I am about ready to set up a test stand and video test this system in action. verifying the whole advertisement of multispark technology.

Also, what type of timing light are you supposed to use with a capacitive discharge ignition?

[X-bredbitch]

BUT the questions that I have been wrestling with include the following. is an ignitions system and combustion chamber so poorly designed that one spark actually leaves that much unburnt mixture that additional sparks light off the left over combustables???


I think the answer is yes the chambers are that poorly designed thats why the Hemi's and Turbo's are so badd ass:yup: they use up all that wasted energy:think:

[pkracing]

(((((((BUT the questions that I have been wrestling with include the following. is an ignitions system and combustion chamber so poorly designed that one spark actually leaves that much unburnt mixture that additional sparks light off the left over combustables??? I am about ready to set up a test stand and video test this system in action. verifying the whole advertisement of multispark technology.

Also, what type of timing light are you supposed to use with a capacitive discharge ignition?[/quote])))))


well the way i see it, a conventional ignition only charges once while the valve is open and the valve can stay open way longer than the spark lasts, so as the valve is opening it sparks and fuel is still being poured into the cylinder,or vice versa, this is why you need Multiple Spark Discharge:think:i am not 100% sure this is how you would explain it, but i do believe it's on the right track
as far as the timing light, i believe any iductive timing light works on an ignition system being use w/MSD

[GMCRACER]

I only run one so I can put the sicker in my window..... :yup:

and all of the fast guys have one.....:yup:

[dbs]

I only run one so I can put the sicker in my window..... :yup:

and all of the fast guys have one.....:yup:

some times i wonder how true this is.

[dbs]

I only run one so I can put the sicker in my window..... :yup:

and all of the fast guys have one.....:yup:

some times i wonder how true this is.

So george, what timing light do you use, and can anyone tell me why mine says i am at 40 degree advance at 1200 rpm

[GMCRACER]

some times i wonder how true this is.

So george, what timing light do you use, and can anyone tell me why mine says i am at 40 degree advance at 1200 rpm

I use an old p.o.s. craftsman non dial back inductive light.....

I run the timing locked and now use a crank trigger.... When I run the car on motor the timing is locked at 42, even off idel.... (30 when I spray then I kick it down to 20-22 on the second kit depending on how hard I hit it)

I would have jumped in earlier if I though I could help you.... :think: My timing was bouncing all over the place before I put on the crank trigger... I have heard bad wires can do this as well... :dunno:

Also you don't have one of those nifty computer controled cars? My silver Vette is timed by ear because I was going through hell trying to get that one right.... I forget what it was doing..... Soon I'll need to visit that hell again.... :cry:

MSD has a tech fourm that may be able to help you.... They (of course) reccomend their MSD timing light.....

[dbs]

I use an old p.o.s. craftsman non dial back inductive light.....

I run the timing locked and now use a crank trigger.... When I run the car on motor the timing is locked at 42, even off idel.... (30 when I spray then I kick it down to 20-22 on the second kit depending on how hard I hit it)

I would have jumped in earlier if I though I could help you.... :think: My timing was bouncing all over the place before I put on the crank trigger... I have heard bad wires can do this as well... :dunno:

Also you don't have one of those nifty computer controled cars? My silver Vette is timed by ear because I was going through hell trying to get that one right.... I forget what it was doing..... Soon I'll need to visit that hell again.... :cry:

MSD has a tech fourm that may be able to help you.... They (of course) reccomend their MSD timing light.....

So this make it sound like the light is right, but my ignition is just a bit sloppy. I had no idea it would need that much.

[GMCRACER]

So this make it sound like the light is right, but my ignition is just a bit sloppy. I had no idea it would need that much.


I don't know what kind of motor you are running or how hero it is (nor do I want to know, that's your secret)....

I can say that most of my Chevy's of the past have liked 38 deg's in them...

To be quite honest I tried the timing at 42 on my current motor and it ran well so I didn't screw with it.... It may like 38 as well (that's where I had it last year)... I had found a big 'bug' at the same time as the 42 deg pass and with the crank trigger it is kind of a pain in the ass to fuck with timing...

[spdrcr999]

I only run one so I can put the sicker in my window..... :yup:

and all of the fast guys have one.....:yup:

I didn't put the sticker on my car because I didn't think it could handle all that power...I did put it on my toolbox though and I picked up 4 tenths and 5 mph!!!

[GMCRACER]

I didn't put the sticker on my car because I didn't think it could handle all that power...I did put it on my toolbox though and I picked up 4 tenths and 5 mph!!!


My only question is "Is it lighter"..... I know my tool box is fucking heavy.....

Things I most dislike about racing (in no order)...

Loading and Unloading the car....

Sitting in Staging....

Sitting in a tech line...

Loading and Unloading all the shit I need to bring with....

Firesuits...

Cost...

[spdrcr999]

My only question is "Is it lighter"..... I know my tool box is fucking heavy....

There is nothing "light" about anything I have concerning racing...My car, my toolbox, my truck, my trailer, my jack, and especially...ME. I had to put the sticker on to help offset some of the pound-age! I need all the help I can get!:laughing:

[GMCRACER]

There is nothing "light" about anything I have concerning racing...My car, my toolbox, my truck, my trailer, my jack, and especially...ME. I had to put the sticker on to help offset some of the pound-age! I need all the help I can get!:laughing:


At 3,705 lbs I had the honor of having the Heaviest car in Extreme Street at the Joliet race.... :think:

The way it is now I am too heavy to 25.5 the car..... :dunno:

Good thing I got rid of my El Camino and it's 4,150lb gurth..... :scared:

[X-bredbitch]

I don't know what kind of motor you are running or how hero it is (nor do I want to know, that's your secret)....

I can say that most of my Chevy's of the past have liked 38 deg's in them...

To be quite honest I tried the timing at 42 on my current motor and it ran well so I didn't screw with it.... It may like 38 as well (that's where I had it last year)... I had found a big 'bug' at the same time as the 42 deg pass and with the crank trigger it is kind of a pain in the ass to fuck with timing...


I hear yah GMC I just learned how to phase in the distributor and set the timing on a crank trigger :scared:

[GMCRACER]

I hear yah GMC I just learned how to phase in the distributor and set the timing on a crank trigger :scared:


yeah me too.... welcome to my formentioned "bug" :cry:

[Draggin My X]

The last few racing threads have been talk about ignition boxes. What's the real purpose of a MSD or other brands or other ignition boxes? Maybe if people knew the purpose of them then maybe it would be easier to understand. PLEASE DON'T TAKE THIS THE WRONG WAY BY ME ASKING OR THE THREAD STARTERS BEFORE THIS POST......I'M NOT SAYING THAT YOU DON'T KNOW!!!!!. I just thought it would be good to be feedback to others. Thanks.
The Ignition Box is SUPPOSE to give a hotter spark then a stock ignition, but it also make hooking up all the add-ons easy & convenient.
The more compression your motor has, the greater need for a hotter spark to light it off. :yup:

[purple66bu]

I hear yah GMC I just learned how to phase in the distributor and set the timing on a crank trigger :scared:
Thats a tricky one and everyone has there own interpertation of it

[X-bredbitch]

yeah me too.... welcome to my formentioned "bug" :cry:


Thats a tricky one and everyone has there own interpertation of it


Yeah I know what both of you mean and Dennis My interpertation is:wow: :scared: :spaz::confused:

[purple66bu]

Yeah I know what both of you mean and Dennis My interpertation is:wow: :scared: :spaz::confused:
Its not as bad as you think...once you understand it

[X-bredbitch]

Its not as bad as you think...once you understand it


See thats the major problem I'm short as hell on understanding:think: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

[purple66bu]

See thats the major problem I'm short as hell on understanding:think: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
The way the FAST guys taught me was take a junk cap cut a hole in the side the size of montanna at #1 activate the nitrous retard when the motor is running(have nos off and fuel unplugged if you can) and set the rotor to the #1 lug at full timing pull.Even though the rotor is far out of phase on motor you wont pull it as hard as you do on spray so the chance of missfire is almost none,but when spraying the rotor is dead nuts at retard for full spark!

[dbs]

FYI, straight out of MSD tech support, just use regular (no digital, no advance) timing lights with the MSD. they say the digital and the advancing lights can pick up the multiple sparks and give you different readings. so there you go from the horses mouth. but they still didn't answer my question yet.

[GMCRACER]

The way the FAST guys taught me was take a junk cap cut a hole in the side the size of montanna at #1 activate the nitrous retard when the motor is running(have nos off and fuel unplugged if you can) and set the rotor to the #1 lug at full timing pull.Even though the rotor is far out of phase on motor you wont pull it as hard as you do on spray so the chance of missfire is almost none,but when spraying the rotor is dead nuts at retard for full spark!


That's what I finally did to get success..... I phased the rotor in at 42 when I ran at 42 on motor... I phased in for 22 when I was spraying it.... Once again kind of a pain in the ass but it worked...

The other thing they got me with was setting up the trigger.... To line up the pick up set your motor to your desired timing, not TDC as the dist. does nothing but distrubte spark (I had a hard time getting that in my head)... I had fun taking all of my shit apart to re-set it, after trying to light MTS on fire....

BTW- Dennis I am phasing dry now.... just make sure you rotate the dist. opposite of the way the rotor turns to set final....

Ex: set motor at 22, put on dummy cap, climb up in motor compartment, rotate dist ccw till you line up number one.... Seems to work the same and you don't need to fuck with all of the wires or look to get electricuted....

[GMCRACER]

See thats the major problem I'm short as hell on understanding:think: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:


I'm a self taught pro now..... Damn it anyway.... :laughing: